Blogger Laane said...
I'm against abortion, let that be said
Even though I would consider the fact that there are circumstances where a choice needs to be made between the physical and mental health of the mother and a very young growing baby.
Well you say you're against abortion but you don't say why. What is the basis of your being against abortion?
Or would you make the choice to let a mother of a family of 6 die in favor of a fetus of 2 weeks?
Sometimes mothers develop cancer and event hough I've seen some movies about heroic mothers who survived it all, most don't.
Why don't we dispense with the make believe situations and the movies and talk about real life.
The vast majority of abortions are not necessary to save the life of the mother.
How christian is it to let a mother die?
The right thing for a doctor would be to do whatever is possible to preserve the life of both baby and mother. That should be his or her concern and focus.
The whole abortion issue is not as clearcut as it seems to be.
It would be easy if it was.
God doesn't have any problem being clear cut about this or any other life issue. It's selfish thinking that muddies the waters. We really want things our own way so we invent gray areas as if God is fooled or stumped by our great intellectual arguments. "Greater love has no man than this, that one lay down his life for His friends" John 15:13, the words of Jesus Christ. The greatest love is sacrificial love which seeks the highest good of the other person and puts them first. A unborn baby is a person/human being who is in the process of growing and developing in the mother's womb. Jerimaiah 1:5
“Before I shaped you in the womb,
I knew all about you.
Before you saw the light of day,
I had holy plans for you:
A prophet to the nations—
that’s what I had in mind for you.”
God only knows the plans that He had in mind for each of the tens of millions of babies that we have slaughtered. Think of the possibilities. From them may have come the cures to cancer , AIDS and other diseases and sicknesses. From them may have come incredible inventions and discoveries to revolutionize the way we get things done. From them may have come leaders who would have served the people with integrity and righteousness and business people with new ideas for prospering the economy and creating more jobs. From their ranks would have come pastors , teachers and even prophets. Doctors, Surgeons , Nurses, medical technicians , From them may have come millions of acts of kindness,compassion and courage which in turn would have touched countless other millions and on and on like ripples from a stone thrown in to a pond. So these tens of millions of lives would have touched multiplied even more tens of millions and even billions of lives around the world.
Politicians are not only talking about the human aspects.
There's a legal aspect to he whole issue.
When legal rights are given to a baby in the whomb, it means it can buy a house, for instance. Or it can inherit a fortune and then die at birth anyway.
It's hard to believe the extent to which those in the pro abortion camp will go to convince the rest of us that killing innocent babies is perfectly justified. And now it's come to this ? We can't protect babies because if we do, the baby might go out and buy a house? The baby might inherit some money and then die so we should just kill it to save any possible future trouble? Are you crazy? We are talking about the right to live.
There's also another aspect.
You are now free to make your own decision. Which is a Christian one, I understand.
No one enforces your decision on you.
But is it up to you and a president of your choice, to enforce your way of life on others?
One of the purposes of law is to protect the innocent and vulnerable from those who would harm them or take unfair advantage of them .
Though my stance against abortion is founded on the fact that God has revealed enough truth for us to know what is right and wrong, that doesn't mean that I am forcing my beliefs about God on anyone. We have a Declaration of Independence and a Constitution which give certain rights to every individual which cannot be denied them , among those being "Life" and "Liberty". But let me get this straight......You don't consider a baby worth protection regardless of religious beliefs? Are you also against laws prohibiting stealing , murder, slander, bearing false witness in a court of law, etc...etc.....? These are also strongly held Christian beliefs. So I guess you wouldn't want to have this way of life enforced on those who don't see anything wrong with doing these things. In fact , why not do away with all laws which are enforced on us against our will or desires? Can you imagine the kind of society this would be and who would be running it?
A society where anything goes and if it hurts you , that's not my concern.
Obama might not be as strict in religion as you are, at least he leaves you the responsibility to make your own choices and take the responsibility on the last day.
Again, we don't use this kind of talk when we are talking about any other crime or person. Concerning stealing: we don't say "you make your own choice and then take responsibility on the last day but we won't tell you it's wrong or right. You do what you want to whomever you want until that "last day".
What society needs is laws that protect the innocent and vulnerable regardless of age or stage of development. Whatever Obama's religion is, it apparently changes to fit his political views when necessary. He won't even allow babies who are born alive after a botched abortion to be given life-sustaining care. He voted against helping these babies at least 3 times.
I gather you accept Mrs. Palin?
Is she really as Christian as you think she is?
I don't know Governor Palin's heart. God does .
But I know where she stands on this issue and it is firmly on the side of life for the unborn and accidentally born. Senator McCain has also affirmed that he will be a pro-life president.
Laane, you said at the begining that you were against abortion. Yet, the whole rest of your comments are an attempt to legitimize it. You can't have it both ways. If you are not sure, then why not take the side of life. Why would you choose death for innocent babies ? Why not speak up on their behalf instead of on the behalf of a politician who doesn't care.
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Thursday, October 16, 2008
More Response to Comments on Abortion
Posted by
Roger DJ
at
1:17 PM
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Welcome to TheNightIsComing.com
The title of this blog is inspired by the words of Jesus to His disciples in the Book of John.
John 9:4 We need to be energetically at work for the One who sent me here, working while the sun shines. When night falls, the workday is over.
The posts here may cover many areas of life and many issues but it will always be the goal of this writer that in everything I will work for the One who sent me here while there is still time.
Jesus Is Returning ! Knowing that, how shall we now live ?


4 comments:
Yeah, I agree....
Abortion is just so cruel... =|
Well said. I think you answered those comments wonderfully. Good job sticking up for those babies!
- Tracey
Homeschool With Tracey
Christianity With Tracey
Laane:
Well, that's an elaborate answer.
It's a pity you don't really address the difficulties I mention, which are the real life problems doctors and carers in gyneacology,obstetrics,psychology and women care have to face regularly.
I've learned that it's a very convenient position to look the other way.
Well, let's try to answer your questions and give my reactions.
==================
Blogger Laane said...
I'm against abortion, let that be said
Even though I would consider the fact that there are circumstances where a choice needs to be made between the physical and mental health of the mother and a very young growing baby.
Well you say you're against abortion but you don't say why. What is the basis of your being against abortion?
=====================
Laane:
Instead of addressing the real problems I mention here, you'd rather want me to make a statement so you can attack me on my views.
Well, if you wish so.
I'm against abortion because I respect life.
My respect for life is so deep that I don't think that people who are against abortion should allow the deathpenalty be part of the legal system.
Because there is only one entity that should judge over humans, the good and the evil alike.
I'm against abortion, because children are a gift. The ultimate gift.
I'm also against abortion because I've been in the position of experiencing the grief of the natural death of two little babies. One in my womb, and one soon after birth. I don't wish anyone that grief in any way.
And I don't want other people to go through the pain I experienced when I miscarried.
I've been in the position of standing beside the little bed of my newborn baby who couldn't live.
There was no need to make the decision the doctor asked from me, because my child died before a decision could be made.
It's a pity that people who are against abortion sometimes show no empathy, no understanding at all for the difficulty of going through the decisions people have to make.
That's what I meant about being in a convenient position.
I don't think it's ethical to push the views one has, the rules of life one wants to follow, on other people.
There are people who are confronted with situations in life where they need to make decisions, and I think we need to respect those people who want to take the responsibility for their decisions all by themselves.
That's why I gave the following real life example.
It's not make belief.
It's life at the core.
====================
Or would you make the choice to let a mother of a family of 6 die in favor of a fetus of 2 weeks?
Sometimes mothers develop cancer and event hough I've seen some movies about heroic mothers who survived it all, most don't.
Why don't we dispense with the make believe situations and the movies and talk about real life.
The vast majority of abortions are not necessary to save the life of the mother.
=============
Laane:
As said, it's not make belief.
Saving the life of a mother is as much part of the abortion debate as it is that society isn't able to educate people so they are well aware of the risks of pregnancy when they go further than looking at each other. If you understand what I mean.
When a society is unable to educate children and young people in such a way that they are aware of the risks of intimate relationships, then we see a rise in teenage pregnancies.
When these young people are not supported with care, they see no other way than abortion.
When societies lack in good support for these pregnant teenagers, when people have nothing else to do than judging them, they also carry part of the responsibility of abortion.
You are right, these abortions are not to save the physical lives of the mother, but to save the emotional and social lives of the mothers.
Some people consider only physical danger a justification of abortus.
===============
How christian is it to let a mother die?
The right thing for a doctor would be to do whatever is possible to preserve the life of both baby and mother. That should be his or her concern and focus.
============
Laane:
Oh yes, but that's a simplification.
And it's easy too.
"Let the doctor make the decisions, so we don't have to think about all those situations which call for a less straightforward and easy rule and view."
========
The whole abortion issue is not as clearcut as it seems to be.
It would be easy if it was.
God doesn't have any problem being clear cut about this or any other life issue. It's selfish thinking that muddies the waters. We really want things our own way so we invent gray areas as if God is fooled or stumped by our great intellectual arguments.
======
Laane:
Well I'm sure not selfish at all.
My time of getting pregnant is over.
And I don't want things my own way, because I've learned too much in life to even consider things might go my way.
I also won't state what I think God wants, because I would never ever consider myself as knowledgable that I would stand in His shoes for one minute.
All I can do is show that life is far more complicated than using single rules and that the exceptions need more than judgement. Maybe these need to be considered with love. Just as Jesus loved those who were despised by others.
==============
"Greater love has no man than this, that one lay down his life for His friends" John 15:13, the words of Jesus Christ.
=================
Laane:
Yes, I know.
We've seen this followed here in WW2, so many people could be saved at the cost of those who wanted them saved.
===================
The greatest love is sacrificial love which seeks the highest good of the other person and puts them first.
============
Laane:
Oh yes.
But I've heard pregnant mothers considering abortus with just that frame of mind: "I can't put this child in this world, because it will grow up in circumstances which are not good for a baby."
==============
A unborn baby is a person/human being who is in the process of growing and developing in the mother's womb. Jerimaiah 1:5
“Before I shaped you in the womb,
I knew all about you.
Before you saw the light of day,
I had holy plans for you:
A prophet to the nations—
that’s what I had in mind for you.”
God only knows the plans that He had in mind for each of the tens of millions of babies that we have slaughtered.
==============
Laane:
You speak of "we" ?
I don't feel that connection with humanity as deep to speak of "we".
I don't agree with sending young people to war either, because I respect their lives too much too.
==============
Think of the possibilities. From them may have come the cures to cancer , AIDS and other diseases and sicknesses. From them may have come incredible inventions and discoveries to revolutionize the way we get things done. From them may have come leaders who would have served the people with integrity and righteousness and business people with new ideas for prospering the economy and creating more jobs. From their ranks would have come pastors , teachers and even prophets. Doctors, Surgeons , Nurses, medical technicians , From them may have come millions of acts of kindness,compassion and courage which in turn would have touched countless other millions and on and on like ripples from a stone thrown in to a pond. So these tens of millions of lives would have touched multiplied even more tens of millions and even billions of lives around the world.
============
Laane:
That's what I think when I see another soldier brought home in a bodybag.
============
Politicians are not only talking about the human aspects.
There's a legal aspect to he whole issue.
When legal rights are given to a baby in the whomb, it means it can buy a house, for instance. Or it can inherit a fortune and then die at birth anyway.
It's hard to believe the extent to which those in the pro abortion camp will go to convince the rest of us that killing innocent babies is perfectly justified.
========
Laane:
Oh noooo. I'm not pro-abortion at all, and I don't belong to any camp.
And I'm not convincing anybody that killing babies is justified.
All I tried to do was make you aware of the fact that there are situations where people need the love that is so clearly lived as an example by Jesus. These people don't need your judgement, but they need your love.
Maybe God placed them in such a difficult position in life so you could choose between judgement and love and care.
===================
And now it's come to this ? We can't protect babies because if we do, the baby might go out and buy a house? The baby might inherit some money and then die so we should just kill it to save any possible future trouble? Are you crazy? We are talking about the right to live.
=============
Laane:
Yes, and when you want to create a good basis, you should adress those legal matters too.
As long as doctors speak about "the fetus", it takes away the full acceptance that they're dealing with a baby.
Do you know that in many countries little babies that are born before 28 weeks are disposed of as junk, or are burned with chopped of legs and tissue from surgeries with the chemical waste?
I've fought my battle in my country and got the law changed, so mothers who lost their little babies because of natural causes can pay the respect the want by being able to bury their loved ones the way they want.
You can turn my words to make me look like a fool, but you are not right in doing so.
===============
There's also another aspect.
You are now free to make your own decision. Which is a Christian one, I understand.
No one enforces your decision on you.
But is it up to you and a president of your choice, to enforce your way of life on others?
One of the purposes of law is to protect the innocent and vulnerable from those who would harm them or take unfair advantage of them .
Though my stance against abortion is founded on the fact that God has revealed enough truth for us to know what is right and wrong, that doesn't mean that I am forcing my beliefs about God on anyone. We have a Declaration of Independence and a Constitution which give certain rights to every individual which cannot be denied them , among those being "Life" and "Liberty". But let me get this straight......You don't consider a baby worth protection regardless of religious beliefs?
===========
Laane:
Why do you adress me as someone who is against you? And who is against the protection of babies?
=============
Are you also against laws prohibiting stealing , murder, slander, bearing false witness in a court of law, etc...etc.....? These are also strongly held Christian beliefs. So I guess you wouldn't want to have this way of life enforced on those who don't see anything wrong with doing these things. In fact , why not do away with all laws which are enforced on us against our will or desires? Can you imagine the kind of society this would be and who would be running it?
A society where anything goes and if it hurts you , that's not my concern.
============
Laane:
The law of a country is based on mutual agreement of all parts of society.
Religion is a personal matter.
==================
Obama might not be as strict in religion as you are, at least he leaves you the responsibility to make your own choices and take the responsibility on the last day.
Again, we don't use this kind of talk when we are talking about any other crime or person. Concerning stealing: we don't say "you make your own choice and then take responsibility on the last day but we won't tell you it's wrong or right. You do what you want to whomever you want until that "last day".
============
Laane:
No.
But I'm talking here about exceptional circumstances around abortion.
Not all situations are as clearcut that we can put a label on them, either "good"or "wrong".
Where the law doesn't provide an answer, it's the personal responsibility of people which comes into question.
==================
What society needs is laws that protect the innocent and vulnerable regardless of age or stage of development. Whatever Obama's religion is, it apparently changes to fit his political views when necessary. He won't even allow babies who are born alive after a botched abortion to be given life-sustaining care. He voted against helping these babies at least 3 times.
==========
Laane: I'm not informed about these cases.
=============
I gather you accept Mrs. Palin?
Is she really as Christian as you think she is?
I don't know Governor Palin's heart. God does .
But I know where she stands on this issue and it is firmly on the side of life for the unborn and accidentally born. Senator McCain has also affirmed that he will be a pro-life president.
Laane, you said at the begining that you were against abortion. Yet, the whole rest of your comments are an attempt to legitimize it. You can't have it both ways. If you are not sure, then why not take the side of life. Why would you choose death for innocent babies ? Why not speak up on their behalf instead of on the behalf of a politician who doesn't care.
==============
Laane:
I'm not making an attempt to legitimize abortion.
I think each society should look into it's own ways of preventing unwanted pregnancies and should improve prevention.
I think each society should look into it's legal system to assure that there is no way a growing baby is withheld rights.
I think each society should take the responsibility to offer girls and women who get pregnant a life that is nurturing on all levels of excistence, both for mother and children.
This offers alternatives to abortion.
I know many societies fall short in this.
I think that even though people are against abortion, they should be aware that there are exceptional circumstances, where people are forced into situations that we can't understand.
These are situations where respect for unborn life stands straight against respect for existing lives.
I can only bow my head and lay these situations in the hand of God and trust Him that he guides these people the way he wants to guide them.
I have to stand back and give them the responsibility they have to take.
It makes me humble to experience that life isn't clearcut, and in my feeling I'm challenged not only to request respect for the lives of unborn babies, but also to request care for those who went through an ordeal.
Abortion is cruel indeed, Cashmere.
And sticking up for those babies is wonderful indeed, Tracey.
I hope I've been able to bring across what I wanted to say.
I don't like to be misinterpreted in these matters.
Thank you for speaking out on an issue so many are so afraid of they won't speak or type the word 'abortion'. I firmly believe that there are 2 lives destroyed in an abortion and have known and spoken to enough abortion survivors to know this to be true.
God Bless you.
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